"Incel" as a contemporary term and subculture came about only after the rise of online culture, so it makes sense to scrutinize any examples that were pre-Internet. GorillaWarfare (talk) 04:18, 25 April 2018 (UTC) (Edit conflict) I think that's a fair critique. Dave Dial ( talk) 04:11, 25 April 2018 (UTC) Okay, fair enough. GRuban ( talk) 04:06, 25 April 2018 (UTC) Yea, that source may be a source for general reference for the term incel, but it's not a source for including Berkowitz as an incel. But the reasoning that he wasn't getting any sex is conspicuous by its absence. He is not a shy person for giving reasons. He says he killed women for lots of reasons, including that they were whores, that a dog told him to do it, that he was demonically possessed, and that he was part of a Satanic cult. And just read the article itself, not a word actually backs up Brown's claim that Berkowitz was involuntarily celibate at all, much less that it was his reasoning for his crimes. The Son of Sam is the subject of some heavy duty historical analysis, not to mention being a living person. In other words this is just one person's uneducated opinion. Brown is creating pop culture and media analysis through a Black feminist lens", which is not really relevant to the Son of Sam. Wear Your Voice Mag doesn't have a Wikipedia article, I see no evidence of editorial review, the author is one Sherronda J Brown who has no reputation as a historian that I can see, here is her Patreon where she is appealing for people to give her money and says she "Sherronda J.
GRuban ( talk) 03:40, 25 April 2018 (UTC) Can you explain how the source is "very questionable"? GorillaWarfare (talk) 03:51, 25 April 2018 (UTC) Sure. We might equally well put Jack the Ripper here. Hatred of women and involuntary celibacy are barely even correlated, plenty of misogynists have lots of sex, and this very article says that the first person to call herself an involuntary celibate was a woman. The only source that connects him to involuntary celibacy is a very questionable one, and even it doesn't give any reasoning for why it calls him an incel, merely that he hated women, which is not at all the same thing. There's been lots written about him, including a lot quoted by our article, and it doesn't say anything about involuntary celibacy. 21 Archives Other Than The Wayback Machine?.8.1 Response to the list of "unreliable sources" provided by Willwill0415.8 Can we please not make the gist of this entire article about 4chan, 4chan-related-spaces, and the blackpill ideology?.6 The popularity of the term and the claims against it having an article.2 Last paragraph in Lede needs a rewrite.
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